Discussion:
How I see the Scoobies
(too old to reply)
JLB
2007-02-10 21:02:19 UTC
Permalink
This is just a little something about my thoughts on several of the
main characters, a bit of fanon. Maybe it'll start some conversation.

Buffy- Her 'superiority complex' is simply the fact she's aware of her
Slayer abilities, especially the fact she can heal from things that
would kill the average person. She's not suicidal most of the time,
but due to her calling she ranks her life below her friends and
family. SHe figures she's destined to die young, no better way than
making sure the people she loves grows old. Buffy isn't that strong
emotionally, she survives by cutting off various feelings at various
times. That led to the General Buffy thing in season 7. She was more
the Harmony of her school, with it lacking a Cordelia, and she knows
it. She has no idea what it's like for a normal person to fight as
the first time she ever threw a punch was after she gained her Slayer
powers. She's kind of offended that most of the time when she doesn't
ask for help her friends insist on coming along and are even insulted
by her warnings to be careful, but on the occasions where she asks for
support she'd often denied it. She was irritated by the Potentials in
season 7, because as far as she was concerned she was only asking them
to do what they would have to do if they were Slayers. They weren't
of course, but thanks to the situation they were in she figured it
could happen at any time. As far as she could tell they only had two
options, act like Slayers, or act like victims.

Xander- willing to sacrifice himself before any of his friends, which
is really the source of problems with Buffy, more than any old
feelings of attraction. The only Scooby who isn't really interested
in the supernatural, for it's own sake, unlike Buffy who doesn't mind
hanging in demon bars, or Willow who has an isatiable magical
curiousity. Not to say he automatically reacts hostily to it, but he
doesn't seek it out himself. If he's ever turned, he does not want
his soul returned. Just dust him. He's never forgotten Giles lesson,
that a vampire isn't the person, just what killed him. In fact he's
never even questioned it.

Willow- believes problems exist to be solved, in whatever way they can
be as efficiently as possible. She wouldn't even have minded others
using magic on her to solve her problems, see her immediate
forgiveness of Tara's demon blindness spell. This is the root of her
problems with magic, not hunger for power. In fact it's probably a
good thing that the supernatural distracted her from her study of
psychology, which was her biggest interest after computers, since if
she followed in her parents footsteps she'd have probably been to
quick to prescibe drugs. If ever turned she does want to be resouled,
since she has so much she wants to learn. This is assuming she's
turned at about her current age. If she was into her fifties or
sixties and it happened for some reason she'd have probably changed
her mind by then. Even after Warren she still believes in vengeance,
to a degree. She figures there's times it's the only way to balance
the scales

Dawn- here's on that's entirely fanon. Dawn's soul is actually the
soul of Buffy's favorite cousin Celia, so that Buffy would have a
spiritual connection to her. Her personality was carefully crafted to
endear her to the entire Scooby Gang. Her intelligence makes her
close with Giles and Willow. Her morbid curiousity with the darker
sife of the supernatural endears her to Spike and Anya. They can be
as descriptive as they want with her being offended. In fact she
enjoyed it. She was a bit of an outsider which gave her something she
could relate to with Tara, and she had a crush on Xander, which he
found flattering.

On the non-Scooby side of things.

Vampires- a vampire is actually capable of feeling a degree of every
emotion a human can, since they share the same brain. Of course a
demons instincts causes it to be expressed differently. Love is
especiallty different due to to things. That a vampire is both
theoretically immortal and incredibly easy to kill. That means if a
vampire doesn't turn a human they have feeling for then that person
would die and the vamp would be alone forever. Meanwhile if after
they're turned they try to leave for a while then the first one may
never see the other again. A vampire has three main instincts. 1.
Survive. 2. Feed 3. Cause pain and suffering. This is why a vampire
won't go out of the way to cause the most painful death possible if
it's in a hurry. For a vampire to be truly effective it has to be
made out of a human who is angry at the world or his place in it, in
some way. Otherwise there's no reason for that person's mind to
embrace the demon.

Harmony- an example of someone who couldn't be an effective vamp.
Turning from human to vampire kept her from whatever vapid pursuits
she had in mind for her future, she had no enemies she wanted to lash
out at because she already made anyone she didn't like miserable. She
no longer gets to go out in the sun, shop for the best clothes or
travel like she wanted to. Her desire to be Big Bad is merely a
reflection of her human self's status climbing.

JLB
jackie
2007-02-11 15:57:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by JLB
This is just a little something about my thoughts on several of the
main characters, a bit of fanon. Maybe it'll start some conversation.
Buffy- Her 'superiority complex' is simply the fact she's aware of her
Slayer abilities, especially the fact she can heal from things that
would kill the average person. She's not suicidal most of the time,
but due to her calling she ranks her life below her friends and
family. SHe figures she's destined to die young, no better way than
making sure the people she loves grows old. Buffy isn't that strong
emotionally, she survives by cutting off various feelings at various
times. That led to the General Buffy thing in season 7. She was more
the Harmony of her school, with it lacking a Cordelia, and she knows
it. She has no idea what it's like for a normal person to fight as
the first time she ever threw a punch was after she gained her Slayer
powers. She's kind of offended that most of the time when she doesn't
ask for help her friends insist on coming along and are even insulted
by her warnings to be careful, but on the occasions where she asks for
support she'd often denied it. She was irritated by the Potentials in
season 7, because as far as she was concerned she was only asking them
to do what they would have to do if they were Slayers. They weren't
of course, but thanks to the situation they were in she figured it
could happen at any time. As far as she could tell they only had two
options, act like Slayers, or act like victims.
Xander- willing to sacrifice himself before any of his friends, which
is really the source of problems with Buffy, more than any old
feelings of attraction. The only Scooby who isn't really interested
in the supernatural, for it's own sake, unlike Buffy who doesn't mind
hanging in demon bars, or Willow who has an isatiable magical
curiousity. Not to say he automatically reacts hostily to it, but he
doesn't seek it out himself. If he's ever turned, he does not want
his soul returned. Just dust him. He's never forgotten Giles lesson,
that a vampire isn't the person, just what killed him. In fact he's
never even questioned it.
Willow- believes problems exist to be solved, in whatever way they can
be as efficiently as possible. She wouldn't even have minded others
using magic on her to solve her problems, see her immediate
forgiveness of Tara's demon blindness spell. This is the root of her
problems with magic, not hunger for power. In fact it's probably a
good thing that the supernatural distracted her from her study of
psychology, which was her biggest interest after computers, since if
she followed in her parents footsteps she'd have probably been to
quick to prescibe drugs. If ever turned she does want to be resouled,
since she has so much she wants to learn. This is assuming she's
turned at about her current age. If she was into her fifties or
sixties and it happened for some reason she'd have probably changed
her mind by then. Even after Warren she still believes in vengeance,
to a degree. She figures there's times it's the only way to balance
the scales
Dawn- here's on that's entirely fanon. Dawn's soul is actually the
soul of Buffy's favorite cousin Celia, so that Buffy would have a
spiritual connection to her. Her personality was carefully crafted to
endear her to the entire Scooby Gang. Her intelligence makes her
close with Giles and Willow. Her morbid curiousity with the darker
sife of the supernatural endears her to Spike and Anya. They can be
as descriptive as they want with her being offended. In fact she
enjoyed it. She was a bit of an outsider which gave her something she
could relate to with Tara, and she had a crush on Xander, which he
found flattering.
On the non-Scooby side of things.
Vampires- a vampire is actually capable of feeling a degree of every
emotion a human can, since they share the same brain. Of course a
demons instincts causes it to be expressed differently. Love is
especiallty different due to to things. That a vampire is both
theoretically immortal and incredibly easy to kill. That means if a
vampire doesn't turn a human they have feeling for then that person
would die and the vamp would be alone forever. Meanwhile if after
they're turned they try to leave for a while then the first one may
never see the other again. A vampire has three main instincts. 1.
Survive. 2. Feed 3. Cause pain and suffering. This is why a vampire
won't go out of the way to cause the most painful death possible if
it's in a hurry. For a vampire to be truly effective it has to be
made out of a human who is angry at the world or his place in it, in
some way. Otherwise there's no reason for that person's mind to
embrace the demon.
Harmony- an example of someone who couldn't be an effective vamp.
Turning from human to vampire kept her from whatever vapid pursuits
she had in mind for her future, she had no enemies she wanted to lash
out at because she already made anyone she didn't like miserable. She
no longer gets to go out in the sun, shop for the best clothes or
travel like she wanted to. Her desire to be Big Bad is merely a
reflection of her human self's status climbing.
JLB
Xander-At a discussion group once there was an interesting speculation
that of all the Scoobies, Xander was either the one most worth
trusting with power or alternatively the one most likely to become a
benevolent dictator with super power, in both views stemming from his
love for his friends. I didn't like his last minute dumping of Anya
but I understood his concerns.

Anya-It was always troubling that she'd never repented for her acts,
she being a voluntary soul joining to D'Hoffryn's ranks and committing
more murders than Drusilla or Angelus. Still hard to say if Xander
gave her up because of that or fears about himself. She was redeemed
I'd say at the very end.

Dawn- Celia? Never heard that. Still was a mystery where the soul
came from last I heard, though in someway she sprang from Buffy. Of
course Regertz's idea that Dawn is Cecily and William's stillborn
daughter only works for alternate universes

Willow-Had the most complex road. Her dumping of compassion for power
was probably the most disturbing character development in the series,
though Joss' theme that Buffy is troubled by fear of losing her
compassion is a nice parallel. Compassion proved the stronger in the
end, but the fight may still be on.

Apart from Spike who was never quite a lead villain, were there any
villains of real interest characterwise? Dru was sad and pathetic.
Darla I guess was the most interesting again apart from Spike/William.
Maybe the Mayor or the First for the lead villains' with most
interesting characters?
JLB
2007-02-11 18:12:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by jackie
Post by JLB
This is just a little something about my thoughts on several of the
main characters, a bit of fanon. Maybe it'll start some conversation.
Buffy- Her 'superiority complex' is simply the fact she's aware of her
Slayer abilities, especially the fact she can heal from things that
would kill the average person. She's not suicidal most of the time,
but due to her calling she ranks her life below her friends and
family. SHe figures she's destined to die young, no better way than
making sure the people she loves grows old. Buffy isn't that strong
emotionally, she survives by cutting off various feelings at various
times. That led to the General Buffy thing in season 7. She was more
the Harmony of her school, with it lacking a Cordelia, and she knows
it. She has no idea what it's like for a normal person to fight as
the first time she ever threw a punch was after she gained her Slayer
powers. She's kind of offended that most of the time when she doesn't
ask for help her friends insist on coming along and are even insulted
by her warnings to be careful, but on the occasions where she asks for
support she'd often denied it. She was irritated by the Potentials in
season 7, because as far as she was concerned she was only asking them
to do what they would have to do if they were Slayers. They weren't
of course, but thanks to the situation they were in she figured it
could happen at any time. As far as she could tell they only had two
options, act like Slayers, or act like victims.
Xander- willing to sacrifice himself before any of his friends, which
is really the source of problems with Buffy, more than any old
feelings of attraction. The only Scooby who isn't really interested
in the supernatural, for it's own sake, unlike Buffy who doesn't mind
hanging in demon bars, or Willow who has an isatiable magical
curiousity. Not to say he automatically reacts hostily to it, but he
doesn't seek it out himself. If he's ever turned, he does not want
his soul returned. Just dust him. He's never forgotten Giles lesson,
that a vampire isn't the person, just what killed him. In fact he's
never even questioned it.
Willow- believes problems exist to be solved, in whatever way they can
be as efficiently as possible. She wouldn't even have minded others
using magic on her to solve her problems, see her immediate
forgiveness of Tara's demon blindness spell. This is the root of her
problems with magic, not hunger for power. In fact it's probably a
good thing that the supernatural distracted her from her study of
psychology, which was her biggest interest after computers, since if
she followed in her parents footsteps she'd have probably been to
quick to prescibe drugs. If ever turned she does want to be resouled,
since she has so much she wants to learn. This is assuming she's
turned at about her current age. If she was into her fifties or
sixties and it happened for some reason she'd have probably changed
her mind by then. Even after Warren she still believes in vengeance,
to a degree. She figures there's times it's the only way to balance
the scales
Dawn- here's on that's entirely fanon. Dawn's soul is actually the
soul of Buffy's favorite cousin Celia, so that Buffy would have a
spiritual connection to her. Her personality was carefully crafted to
endear her to the entire Scooby Gang. Her intelligence makes her
close with Giles and Willow. Her morbid curiousity with the darker
sife of the supernatural endears her to Spike and Anya. They can be
as descriptive as they want with her being offended. In fact she
enjoyed it. She was a bit of an outsider which gave her something she
could relate to with Tara, and she had a crush on Xander, which he
found flattering.
On the non-Scooby side of things.
Vampires- a vampire is actually capable of feeling a degree of every
emotion a human can, since they share the same brain. Of course a
demons instincts causes it to be expressed differently. Love is
especiallty different due to to things. That a vampire is both
theoretically immortal and incredibly easy to kill. That means if a
vampire doesn't turn a human they have feeling for then that person
would die and the vamp would be alone forever. Meanwhile if after
they're turned they try to leave for a while then the first one may
never see the other again. A vampire has three main instincts. 1.
Survive. 2. Feed 3. Cause pain and suffering. This is why a vampire
won't go out of the way to cause the most painful death possible if
it's in a hurry. For a vampire to be truly effective it has to be
made out of a human who is angry at the world or his place in it, in
some way. Otherwise there's no reason for that person's mind to
embrace the demon.
Harmony- an example of someone who couldn't be an effective vamp.
Turning from human to vampire kept her from whatever vapid pursuits
she had in mind for her future, she had no enemies she wanted to lash
out at because she already made anyone she didn't like miserable. She
no longer gets to go out in the sun, shop for the best clothes or
travel like she wanted to. Her desire to be Big Bad is merely a
reflection of her human self's status climbing.
JLB
Anya-It was always troubling that she'd never repented for her acts,
she being a voluntary soul joining to D'Hoffryn's ranks and committing
more murders than Drusilla or Angelus. Still hard to say if Xander
gave her up because of that or fears about himself. She was redeemed
I'd say at the very end.
I'd say it was fears about himself.
Post by jackie
Dawn- Celia? Never heard that. Still was a mystery where the soul
came from last I heard, though in someway she sprang from Buffy. Of
course Regertz's idea that Dawn is Cecily and William's stillborn
daughter only works for alternate universes
Yeah, as I said this is my personal fanon. If you've never heard of
Celia she was the cousin of Buffy's that Der Kinderstod killed.
Post by jackie
Willow-Had the most complex road. Her dumping of compassion for power
was probably the most disturbing character development in the series,
though Joss' theme that Buffy is troubled by fear of losing her
compassion is a nice parallel. Compassion proved the stronger in the
end, but the fight may still be on.
I never saw it. When they described Willow as "the best of us" in
Dopplegangland, I felt like they hit the nail on the head, and
considering she was still trying to better herself, while others
seemed to become content as they were, I definately felt it was still
true. Willow of season 1 would still have wanted Warren dead. As for
fighting the Scoobies, I think she would have totally ignored them if
they hadn't gotten in her way. I think it pissed her off that they
were trying to help Tara's kilelr. No one helped Angelus when Giles
went after him, or helped Faith when Buffy went after her.

JLB
kim
2007-02-11 21:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by jackie
Anya-It was always troubling that she'd never repented for her acts,
Why should she?
Post by jackie
she being a voluntary soul joining to D'Hoffryn's ranks and committing
more murders than Drusilla or Angelus.
She only ever killed men who deserved it. Not enough of them in my opinion.

(kim)
-Andy-
2007-02-11 21:56:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by kim
Post by jackie
Anya-It was always troubling that she'd never repented for her acts,
Why should she?
I don't think anyone ever expected her to. Or asked.

Just like they didn't expect Spike or Angel to "repent" (it was
something they did on their own but then they came from a culture
(Christian) that is heavily into that while Anya came from one that
didn't.)
Post by kim
Post by jackie
she being a voluntary soul joining to D'Hoffryn's ranks and committing
more murders than Drusilla or Angelus.
She only ever killed men who deserved it.
Well... we don't actually know that. But... she was just doing her job
and she came from a time where (I suspect) the common people, such as
herself, didn't think too much about morality and other things that got
philosopher's knickers in a twist. She certainly didn't see anything
wrong with what she did before she met the sanctimonious among the
Scoobies.

-Andy-
--
| Never suggest Spinning Tops of Doom to Villains in Training. |
Stephen Tempest
2007-02-11 22:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by kim
She only ever killed men who deserved it. Not enough of them in my opinion.
Even if you accept that having your heart ripped out by a spider demon
is a proportionate punishment for laughing at somebody, you have to
account for the fact that Cordelia's wish led directly to *her* *own*
death.

Not to mention that if Anya really did trigger the Russian Revolution,
she has at least 20 million deaths - men, women and children - laid to
her account. :)

Stephen
John Briggs
2007-02-11 23:02:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tempest
Post by kim
She only ever killed men who deserved it. Not enough of them in my opinion.
Even if you accept that having your heart ripped out by a spider demon
is a proportionate punishment for laughing at somebody, you have to
account for the fact that Cordelia's wish led directly to *her* *own*
death.
Not to mention that if Anya really did trigger the Russian Revolution,
she has at least 20 million deaths - men, women and children - laid to
her account. :)
Wrong Revolution - as you well know, having debated it with me in September
:-)
--
John Briggs
kim
2007-02-11 23:12:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tempest
Post by kim
She only ever killed men who deserved it. Not enough of them in my opinion.
Even if you accept that having your heart ripped out by a spider demon
is a proportionate punishment for laughing at somebody
Quote: "Just once, I wish you could all feel what it's like to have your
hearts ripped out. Just once. I wish..."

Sounds perfectly fair to me :o)

(kim)
(Harmony) Watcher
2007-02-11 23:11:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by kim
Post by jackie
Anya-It was always troubling that she'd never repented for her acts,
Why should she?
Post by jackie
she being a voluntary soul joining to D'Hoffryn's ranks and committing
more murders than Drusilla or Angelus.
She only ever killed men who deserved it. Not enough of them in my opinion.
Think spider-demon killing frat boys in Season 7. Their only in-story
offense to the girl was over-the-top teasing and mockery. I think some frat
girls might even have died in the incident as collateral damages (it's too
conveniently silly to have all the frat girls unharmed when spidy attacked
especially when we saw how Spidy attacked Willow).

Had Dawny or any one else been careless in their sentences, Anyanka might
have killed Xander in the same way, if not worse.

--
==Harmony Watcher==
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2007-02-11 23:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by kim
Post by kim
Post by jackie
Anya-It was always troubling that she'd never repented for her acts,
Why should she?
Post by jackie
she being a voluntary soul joining to D'Hoffryn's ranks and committing
more murders than Drusilla or Angelus.
She only ever killed men who deserved it. Not enough of them in my
opinion.
Think spider-demon killing frat boys in Season 7. Their only in-story
offense to the girl was over-the-top teasing and mockery. I think some frat
girls might even have died in the incident as collateral damages (it's too
conveniently silly to have all the frat girls unharmed when spidy attacked
especially when we saw how Spidy attacked Willow).
i think that was the only one woman there
the idea being to bring her alone to be attacked and humiliated

in any case she wasnt concerned that cordelia didnt survive her wish

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
kim
2007-02-11 23:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by kim
Post by kim
Post by jackie
Anya-It was always troubling that she'd never repented for her acts,
Why should she?
Post by jackie
she being a voluntary soul joining to D'Hoffryn's ranks and committing
more murders than Drusilla or Angelus.
She only ever killed men who deserved it. Not enough of them in my
opinion.
Think spider-demon killing frat boys in Season 7. Their only in-story
offense to the girl was over-the-top teasing and mockery. I think some frat
girls might even have died in the incident as collateral damages (it's too
conveniently silly to have all the frat girls unharmed when spidy attacked
especially when we saw how Spidy attacked Willow).
Had Dawny or any one else been careless in their sentences, Anyanka might
have killed Xander in the same way, if not worse.
...and that would be bad because...?

(kim)
(Harmony) Watcher
2007-02-12 00:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by kim
Post by kim
Post by kim
Post by jackie
Anya-It was always troubling that she'd never repented for her acts,
Why should she?
Post by jackie
she being a voluntary soul joining to D'Hoffryn's ranks and committing
more murders than Drusilla or Angelus.
She only ever killed men who deserved it. Not enough of them in my
opinion.
Think spider-demon killing frat boys in Season 7. Their only in-story
offense to the girl was over-the-top teasing and mockery. I think some
frat
Post by kim
girls might even have died in the incident as collateral damages (it's too
conveniently silly to have all the frat girls unharmed when spidy attacked
especially when we saw how Spidy attacked Willow).
Had Dawny or any one else been careless in their sentences, Anyanka might
have killed Xander in the same way, if not worse.
...and that would be bad because...?
... because a painful death punishment by a jabbing spidy does not match the
cruelty of leaving Anya at the altar.

--
==Harmony Watcher==
kim
2007-02-12 11:20:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by jackie
Post by kim
Post by kim
Post by kim
Post by jackie
Anya-It was always troubling that she'd never repented for her acts,
Why should she?
Post by jackie
she being a voluntary soul joining to D'Hoffryn's ranks and
committing
Post by kim
Post by kim
Post by kim
Post by jackie
more murders than Drusilla or Angelus.
She only ever killed men who deserved it. Not enough of them in my
opinion.
Think spider-demon killing frat boys in Season 7. Their only in-story
offense to the girl was over-the-top teasing and mockery. I think some
frat
Post by kim
girls might even have died in the incident as collateral damages (it's
too
Post by kim
Post by kim
conveniently silly to have all the frat girls unharmed when spidy
attacked
Post by kim
Post by kim
especially when we saw how Spidy attacked Willow).
Had Dawny or any one else been careless in their sentences, Anyanka
might
Post by kim
Post by kim
have killed Xander in the same way, if not worse.
...and that would be bad because...?
... because a painful death punishment by a jabbing spidy does not match the
cruelty of leaving Anya at the altar.
You think it should be something much worse? So do I.

(kim)

(Harmony) Watcher
2007-02-11 22:52:49 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Apart from Spike who was never quite a lead villain, were there any
villains of real interest characterwise? Dru was sad and pathetic.
Darla I guess was the most interesting again apart from Spike/William.
Maybe the Mayor or the First for the lead villains' with most
interesting characters?
Sad, maybe; but Dru was never pathetic. After Spike nursed her back to
health, she was positively "ringing all over". Indeed, she might have been
the only vamp in Buffyverse to have sired her own grand-sire.
Psych-one-oh-one-ing, Angel's mental health problems were probably 100 times
worse than Dru's. In fact, Angel was effectively nuttier than Dru at the
end.

--
==Harmony Watcher==
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